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*sigh* now WTF am I supposed to do??
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:42 pm
by Furiel
So there was a comment made to a person at PAX, it got blown up, then got clarified, and at the end of the day I'm screwed out of what I want to play. Arrican possibly as well. So it's confirmed here at a minimum that Trandos and Wookies are NOT going to be playable. So much for my trooper being SWG Furiel's greatx13 grandfather, and now I'll have to come up with a completely new backstory. Not that RP was much of my thing anyway, but it's the thought that counts.
The original quote was "If you can't imagine it making out with Princess Leia, you probably won't be able to play it."
The full answer given:
Hey Folks,
Sorry for the confusion. Booth chat is, let's be clear, not an official information release. What you got was one line of an extended conversation that was had between me and one of the players at the booth. We started talking about what made a hero in Star Wars and then, once that was clear, there were some jokes about what the romances would look like had we gone for the toybox approach of letting you play anything in the action figure line. That's the part of the conversation the quote came from.
The first part was merely a repetition of something we've said before. Namely that lead characters in an RPG must be something the player can relate to. There has never been a movie or major Star Wars series with a complete freak job as the lead and that's because dramatically it doesn't work. We don't understand what it means to be a giant lizard or a droid or a walking ball of jelly. We love the weird characters but they are always the sidekicks, not the emotional connection in the movie. To do an RPG that way every NPC you ran into would have to react to you depending on their own cultural bias and the entire "into the strange" adventure that is Star Wars would be lost as you would be the strangest thing in the room. People would constantly be asking you for information about your weird species and their emotional content that the vast majority of players simply wouldn't have and their ability to really BE this character would be nil.
So whether it's Dragon Age, Mass Effect or The Old Republic, PCs are near enough to humans for us to crawl into their skin. They have generally understandable facial expressions, they don't look ludicrous speaking the basic language, they can interact with the rest of the galaxy without a constant "what the heck?" reaction from the NPCs. The freaks, the droids, the weird that we get to know and learn about--that's where our companions come in.
It's okay to turn to your companions and say "What are you supposed to be?" It's not okay to look in the mirror and say that.
In the future I can see a day where we would do a Trandoshan or Wookiee type story but it would have to be just that. Not a simple graphic swap where now your smuggler is a giant lizard man and nobody notices but a full class story where you learn what it means to be this strange alien and deal with the rest of the galaxy and their reactions. For the present, however, our heroes are our projections of self, headed into a galaxy of wonders and adventures.
I know that this isn't what some people want but I hope it helps them understand that game design isn't simply throwing random features into a game because they seem cool. You have to have a goal, a final holistic ideal that you're trying to hit. The Old Republic is, and always has been, about starring in your own version of a Star Wars movie. Not playing a background character from scene 5, not about living a humdrum day to day existence in the Star Wars worlds (there are no refreshers--sorry!) and not about pulling out the extended action figure line and getting to use it as virtual costume party. None of these are, by themselves, bad goals and could absolutely be fun in a very different sort of game. But in TOR they would work directly against what we were trying to achieve.
So did we limit species choice for romances? No. Did we limit them for our goal of bringing cinematic storytelling and the dream of living the Star Wars movies to the MMO space? Absolutely.
Hope that helps!
Daniel
Re: *sigh* now WTF am I supposed to do??
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:53 pm
by Blackferne
Next up on the "will it play won't it play" chopping block... mon cals and bothans.
Re: *sigh* now WTF am I supposed to do??
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:44 pm
by Veela
But, what if all I relate to is a Sarlacc?
Re: *sigh* now WTF am I supposed to do??
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:50 pm
by Blackferne
Veela wrote:But, what if all I relate to is a Sarlacc?
Wrong question apparently. You need to ask yourself if Leia would make out with the Sarlacc?
Re: *sigh* now WTF am I supposed to do??
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:55 pm
by Furiel
Blackferne wrote:Veela wrote:But, what if all I relate to is a Sarlacc?
Wrong question apparently. You need to ask yourself if Leia would make out with the Sarlacc?
Apparently BW thinks Princess Leia goes both ways too, because last I knew you could play either male or female toons.
Re: *sigh* now WTF am I supposed to do??
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:03 pm
by Gandolfini
Furiel wrote:Blackferne wrote:Veela wrote:But, what if all I relate to is a Sarlacc?
Wrong question apparently. You need to ask yourself if Leia would make out with the Sarlacc?
Apparently BW thinks Princess Leia goes both ways too, because last I knew you could play either male or female toons.
pixpls
Re: *sigh* now WTF am I supposed to do??
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:10 pm
by Blackferne
Furiel wrote: So much for my trooper being SWG Furiel's greatx13 grandfather, and now I'll have to come up with a completely new backstory.
Is there no chance that Furiel was 0.003% non trando? Maybe, just maybe he has just a little non-reptile in his blood.
Re: *sigh* now WTF am I supposed to do??
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:13 pm
by Sir Psyko
Veela wrote:But, what if all I relate to is a Sarlacc?
Poor Jimi.
I mentioned a while back that I didn't think Trandos would be playable since they're listed in the "creatures" part of the Holocron. It's a little disappointing to see Wookiees discounted, but given the ties with Trandos it makes sense from a story perspective. With Zabraks in, I can see Bothans included as playable, but it's hard to tell given the full quote. I can understand limiting races. They said a while back that each race in a group will get a different response from any given NPC for the same quest, even when grouped. But they also hinted (IMHO) that Trandos and Wooks may be in a future expansion if the demand is there.
Re: *sigh* now WTF am I supposed to do??
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:20 pm
by Blackferne
And wait a second didn't Leia say she'd rather kiss a wookiee? I think They need to rethink this!
Re: *sigh* now WTF am I supposed to do??
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:30 am
by Kitoshi
At the very least I can see Trandos and Wookiees being expac races. They're too integral to the Star Wars universe to not allow players to play them.
Re: *sigh* now WTF am I supposed to do??
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:27 am
by Vespasian
"The original quote was "If you can't imagine it making out with Princess Leia, you probably won't be able to play it."
After watch blackies honeymoon video there is nothing left unimagionable.
Re: *sigh* now WTF am I supposed to do??
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:57 pm
by Cuspar
Some days, ALL I think of is Slave Leia making out with a Mon Calamari.
EDIT: And on a serious note, fuck Bioware for this decision.
Re: *sigh* now WTF am I supposed to do??
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:31 pm
by Blackferne
I'm definitely disappointed in Bioware for not going more deeply into the species list because having a mon cal, trando, and wookiee friend made SWG feel pretty star warsy, but on the other hand I can see is story is as important as they are saying, writing all that could be a real pain in the ass. I mean I had doubts about wookiees for a while, but mostly because of gameplay issues like armor, the nix due to who can play tongue hockey with whom surprised me.
Re: *sigh* now WTF am I supposed to do??
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:40 pm
by Furiel
Even though that's the reason given, and BW is pushing story so hard, at the same time I believe that alot of those other issues were/are contributing factors as well. If you really start to look at it you have issues like Wookies and Trandos don't speak basic, so what do you do with them in a fully voiced MMO? Give them howls and hisses with subtitles? That kinda defeats the purpose. This is also why I'm skeptical about Rodians being playable as basic speaking Rodians were either rare or didn't exist. I forgot what they call the race that Walrus Man was, but I doubt they will be playable as well.
I think that BW is using story as a crutch to justify certain design decisions that were made probably primarily for other reasons, but because you can justify it via story elements that's easier to explain rather than saying you can't play a Wookie because we couldn't find the time or the money to create whole new sets of wookie armor for the Republic classes.
Re: *sigh* now WTF am I supposed to do??
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:11 pm
by Veela
Blackferne wrote:Veela wrote:But, what if all I relate to is a Sarlacc?
Wrong question apparently. You need to ask yourself if Leia would make out with the Sarlacc?
There's a lot of people I wish would make out with a Sarlacc.
Re: *sigh* now WTF am I supposed to do??
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:29 pm
by Cuspar
Veela wrote:Blackferne wrote:Veela wrote:But, what if all I relate to is a Sarlacc?
Wrong question apparently. You need to ask yourself if Leia would make out with the Sarlacc?
There's a lot of people I wish would make out with a Sarlacc.
Veela has a tentacle porn fetish!
Re: *sigh* now WTF am I supposed to do??
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:39 pm
by Blackferne
Cuspar wrote:Veela wrote:Blackferne wrote:Veela wrote:But, what if all I relate to is a Sarlacc?
Wrong question apparently. You need to ask yourself if Leia would make out with the Sarlacc?
There's a lot of people I wish would make out with a Sarlacc.
Veela has a tentacle porn fetish!
You say that like it is weird.
Re: *sigh* now WTF am I supposed to do??
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:09 pm
by Furiel
Cuspar wrote:Veela wrote:Blackferne wrote:Veela wrote:But, what if all I relate to is a Sarlacc?
Wrong question apparently. You need to ask yourself if Leia would make out with the Sarlacc?
There's a lot of people I wish would make out with a Sarlacc.
Veela has a tentacle porn fetish!
Who doesn't? I mean seriously, name 1 person that you can confirm does not have one...